----start----- morris speaking of exams midterm is monday, from 9-10 format is 40 multiple choice questions 3 from each hour of lecture, except today's lecture will only have 2 hrs of lecture. know what regular and double strength mitaban means and know dose ranges of ivermec for daily use for k9 demodecosis or weekly use for other stuff. just recognize that on the page. know #1 drug of choice for the dzs we've covered. ok. there's a section on the immunology of autoimmunity- that's not being covered in this course. drugs used to tx other immune dzs - helpful to read through but not really part of this course either. Clinical Dz - page four of autoimmune dz handout Pemphigus complex - most important immune disease a group of autoimmune skin diseases desmosomes - the little molecular mortar junctions connecting the layers of skin together, made of desmoglein. in humans and dogs, the molecular pathophysiology is an autoAb comes in, binds the desmoglein, nd disrupts the desmosomes, separating layers, producing clefts. pemphigus foliaceous: clefting occurs b/w the cornified cell layers and b/w granular layer and cornified layers. very superficial and fragile. vulgaris - suprabasilar clefting - the vesicles are more hardy, don't rupture so easily. slides: p.f - cleft just below stratum corneum p.v: cleft just above stratum basale - looks like basal cells are "tombstones" two types of p.foliaceous in humans - classical, in people >60; and pf endemicus, which is similar to canine type, and is also called fogo selvagem: endemic to some areas of Brazil, those at risk are laborers who are outside a lot. in studies we see huge risk factor is exposure to the bites of black flies of the simulidae family. canine p.f. most similar to fogo selvagem in humans: early age of onset: 1-5 yr old generalized progression alopecia - lots palmaro-plantar involvement generally responds better to steroids than classic pf in people no sex predilection noted in domestic spp (females not overrep) no breed predilections in cats or horses canine breed predilections do exist genetic modes and penetrance unknown is reported in littermates, we think may be autosomal recessive, not sure history: lesions occur in wavelike fashion often starting on face and going caudal flare ups are rapid, literally overnight intrinsic cyclicity seen in some cases - may flare up every n days relationship to season and UV light exposure? more common in Rocky Mountains, Texas, etc. clinical presentation in dogs: lesions start at planum nasale, often, and bridge of nose. facial involvement may include muzzle, periocular area, and pinna. this dog has entire philtrum and muzzle and periocular area depigmented, alopecic, crusted. this is a classic way for chows to express this. breed specific presentation. lesions start as erythematous macule, small flat and red. then ruptures and crusts, you see epidermal collarettes. as pustules rupture and dessicate, superficial crusts are formed; if you remove them there is an inflamed, uncomfortable erosion under it. localized lesions not that common, but sometimes occur on only footpads or genitals. footpad disease as only clinical sign may occur, may be misdiagnosed as "hard pad disease" which used to occur in dogs who had had distemper as puppies. slide: closeup of feet - very thickened. after 4 wks of pred and immuran, feet much better, dog ambulatory. generalized dz more common; esp in non-Chow breeds. this dog is a husky with whole body affected, generalized alopecia and crusts, dog febrile and anorexic. there are some good reviews of pf in dogs. about 60% of cases become generalized w/in 6 mos without aggressive therapy, 27% will stay localized x several years. drugs can induce pemphigus like disease that can't be differentiated histologically - although perhaps there are more eosinophils in drug induced types. slide: dog who had rxn to cephalexin, an antistaph drug used all the time. this dog has pustules in the ear, whole body becoming alopecic. clinical presentation in cats: similar starts with facial les ions, muzzle, eyes, pinna other areas of localization: around mammary glands, and paronychia - around nail beds - most important lesion in cats. will slough nails. with paronychia, exudate dripping from nail beds - pf number one ddx. generalization may occur, less common than in dogs though. cats do not form grossly appreciable pustules. maybe once that has been seen. you have to biopsy and find microscopic ones in order to dx them. slide: cat with crusted muzzle cat skin too thin to maintain pustules. slide: paronychia - sloughing nails, lots of exudate. cats do not want to walk, it hurts horse: again, facial orientation - note circular, depressed lesion - horses are like cats, you can't see the actual pustule but there are circular crusts. skin too thin. rupture too soon. have to bx to find microscopic pustulization. legs, mane get affected. dogs: footpads, cats: paronychia, horse: coronary bands goat: periocular, muzzle lesions. you can see pustules on goats. feet can get very bad - coronary band and interdigital disease. dx of pemphigus foliaceous: not that straightforward. history and PE very suggestive, esp if you have classic chow face, or footpad affected, in dog, or cat with paronychia, but have to rule out other things. cytology with acantholytic cells is suggestive. Tzanck prep: take a small needle, pop a pustule, touch slide to it, stain, look under scope. if you see the acantholytic cells - free floating epidermal cells - you think you know the dx, may start therapy pending histopath. ddx: other pustular, scaling diseases. Tzanck prep: looks for acantholytic cells which are swimming in a sea of neutrophils. shouldn't be any bacteria in the neutrophils. the acanthocytes may be present in large clumps or rafts. slide: neutrophils with large plump rounded epidermal cells floating among them. look like fried eggs. histopathology is the only definitive way to dx pemphigus foliaceous. some clients refuse biopsy for financial reasons. if you have a classic Tzanck prep, you can go ahead and treat aggressively in those situations, but should really bx to be certain. slide: intact pustule full of neutrophils - really tiny roof of pustule. no bacteria within the neutrophils. can see rafts of acanthocytes floating in there. some are sticking to the roof of the pustule - a Klingon. clefts are heavily infiltrated with neutrophils, some eosinophils primary lesion is a pustule. note in humans, this is a vesicular not pustular disease - no neutrophils. we do not know why, since dogs and people recognize the same antigen. weird. direct immunofluorescence - use Michelle's media to preserve. in humans, this test is very helpful b/c sometimes you don't get a good pustule on the biopsy. in dogs, conflicting data exists - 50-50 chance of meaningful results. we don't do this test here. other methods: indirect immunofluorescence- blood smear, looking for peripheral Ab - worthless in dog, horse, probably cat. immunoperoxidase - commonly run at Texas a&m. they think it's a good test. before the phantom proclamation by them which isn't published, all studies have shown it is unreliable similar to direct immunofluorescence. reccomend histopath only reliable method. tx in dogs: combination therapy from day one. this is what to knwo: tx of choice is prednisone or methylprednisolone (doesn't matter which): induction dose in notes; once in remission taper to low every other day or every third day dose, lowest possible dose to keep in remission (usually not that low). also start on immuran (azothioprine) at the same time as pred b/c it has an 8 week lag phase. use 1 mg/lb once daily (some use every other day). if immuran fails or has side effects (liver toxicity, WBC suppression) then next choice is chlorambucil (leukeran) - leukeran is expensive though. no generic available. slide; chow with paronychia and facial dz. after 6 weeks on tx hair is grown back on feet, but nails still have some ridging and dystrophy, b/c paronychia interrupted the matrix. won't be normal ever. in cats, unlike dogs, we often get away with just steroids. immunosuppressive doses of gcc are often palliative alone. we don't use prednisone in cats, we use prednisolone, so liver doesn't have to change it - cat liver isn't efficient at it. use 2x dog dose then taper to lowest effective dose. if impossible to induce remission, chlorambucil is adjunct of choice. in cats, immuran is contraindicated. some people use it but it isn't defensible. highly hepato and myelotoxic in cats. monitoring in any species: CBC/platelet count q 2-3 weeks, repeat monthly x 3 mos; then come in quarterly for a year, then q 6 mos. ACTH stim PRN for canine patients if trying to take them off immunosuppressive doses of pred. that's to ensure no Addisonian crisis occurs. want to check adrenal function. Pemphigus Erythematosus - just quickly - at Penn, people think it exists, Dr Morris does not, but has to teach it i guess. in humans, this is a crossover dz with features of lupus and pf. most people with PE have positive ANA, but histologically have a lupoid pattern along with vesicles. in dogs, we've taken this human disease and tried to find it? dogs don't really have this b/c are never ANA positive and don't have lupoid band under their pustules. dogs do have facial pf.... tx same anyway. Panepidermal pustular pemphigus: might see on path report one day. most like pf, although pustules are deeper in epidermis. most similar to pf, though, not pv. some people think you can use nonsteroids (tetracycline and niacinamide) to tx this dz but you probably can't. probably tx same as regular pemphigus foliaceous. slide: akita with panepidermal pustular pemphigus - looks like pf, but histo shows pustules just under stratum corneum and in midlevel of epidermis and also down just above the basal cells. there is no homologous disease in humans. anyway, we tx it the same as pf. pemphigus vulgaris: occurs in dogs, cats, humans. very strongly associated with genotype in people, mainly hasidic jews and mediterranean folks. a different desmoglein Ab (dg 3 instead of the dg 1 of PF) which is expressed only in basal layer. affects skin and mucosa. has acute onset usually starting with oral ulcers. often present for halitosis, salivation. anorexia, pyrexia, depression occur. vesicles/bullae not pustules form, then rupture to form ulcers (mucosa, skin, footpads esp mouth, feet). paronychia and sloughing nails very common in this disease. this disease is very uncommon, and really rare in cats. again, split occurs just above the basal layer. ddx: bullous pemphigoid, bullous SLE, bullous erythema multiforme, drug rxn, ulcerative stomatitis. cytology: aspirate of vesicular fluid - look for acanthocytes (no neutrophils) histopath is definitive: suprabasilar clefting (row of tombstones = basal cells) you want to bx the edge of the ulcer or remove a vesicle intact if possible. P. vulgaris much harder to control, start with combination therapy, give guarded px. some cases do well, though. usually requires more aggressive tx than pf. DLE - discoid lupus erythematosis (note: not going to discuss SLE, which is really rare). discoid - on humans, causes disc shaped lesions on cheeks. in dogs, doesn't, but hey, name has stuck. in people, DLE can progress to SLE - not in dogs. histopath is different too. not really the same disease. has different tx. common in collie, sheltie, shepherd, husky, brittany, lab, rottie, mutt :) very rare in cats. signs: depigmentation and loss of cobblestone architecture of nasal planum - that is earliest sign - milky white, serous d/c present. later, mores severe ulceration, crusting, progressing over muzzle, lips. periocular area, footpads, genital skin (less common). big thing with DLE is like pemphigus, it is photoexacerbated - keep out of sun 10 am -2 pm around here. slide: dog with depigmentation of whole nose, some diseaseon muzzle too. tetracycline/niacinamide = tx of choice. the depigmentation never goes away, so use sunscreen. less classic presentation of DLE - erythematous lesions around lips, nose is totally ok; interdigital spaces are ulcerated. DLE was low on ddx list. scrotal skin was also very exudative and erosive. biopsy dx DLE. dog did not have systemic lupus. cat with DLE - depigmented nose, feet; with crusting and erythema. dx: ddx nasal solar dermatitis, pemphigus, mycosis fungoides, drug eruption, uveodermatologic syndrome. ANA negative skin biopsy mandatory for dx. nothing pathognomonic about the lesion grossly. tx of DLE: vitamin E or omega 3 fatty acids is in textbooks; Dr Morris finds those not useful. tetracycline/niacinamide: used together with topical glucocorticoids and sunscreens with SPF 30 or higher. topical steroids really help at first to induce remission, then get stopped after a month if possible b/c they cause nose atrophy. we really try to avoid use of systemic steroids - really not usually necessary. it's not worth risking the side effects. usually lifelong tx. K9 uveodermatologic syndrome (VKH like syndrome): pathomechanism: autoimmunity to melanin and melanocytes in pigmented epithelium. in humans, the long japanese name for this disease comes from the three people who found the three lesions: skin, eye, and meningeal lesions. dogs do not get the meningitis part. dogs only get inflammation of skin and uveal tract. Northern breeds most affected - husky, akita, samoyed. no age or sex predilection. slide: squinting akita - very photophobic from anterior uveitis clinical features: affects oral mucosa, anal and genital skin, feet, sometimes involved. periocular alopecia, and depigmentation, common. corneal edema present. eyes look opaque. VKH in a lab mix - unusual. periocular paleness, nose looks like DLE but his eyes are also affected with anterior uveitis. histopath looks very similar to discoid lupus and confuses people who are not Dr Goldschmidt :) (joke) dx: history, signalment, signs skin biopsy tx: refer to ophthalmology, pred and azathioprine in combination; etc. tx like pemphigus with pred and immuran. if you tx for DLE, won't respond - tetracycline and niacinamide do not help this disease. ---break---- Genodermatoses: a heterogeneous group of diseases thought to be familial in one or more breeds but in which other aspects of their pathophys is unknown. Canine Juvenile Dermatomyositis: almost only in Collies and Shelties, sometimes in corgi, chow, GSD, kuvasz although very very rare. signs: lesion onset w/in 6-8 mos of age. you may not see until adult. progression unpredictable, usually complete by 1 yr. may be subtle. lesions: periocular, muzzle,apices of pinna, tail tip, extensor surfaces of legs, top of toes. alopecia, erythema, then later scaling, crusting, sometimes vesicles, bullae. ulceration if severe; vasculitis. chronically atrophic skin, scarring alopecia.skin lesions are nonpruritic myositis may be undetectable or severe, affecting head, pelvic limbs, may cause megaesophagus. sometimes only clinical aspect of myositis is sloppy eating. dx dermatomyositis: signalment and signs very suggestive. usually doens't affect nose leather but only haired skin ddx demodex (huge differential - scrape these dogs), staph folliculitis, dermatophytosis, DLE. skin bx: hydropic degeneration of basal keratinocytes, apoptoxis, fading follicles, dermal fibrosis muscle biopsy: necrosis and/or atrophy of muscle slide: sheltie with moderate disease - patchy areas of alopecia and erythema slide; sheltie misdiagnosed with DLE on biopsy; had been on high steroid doses for years, lots of skin and muscle atrophy; has ACL rupture from this. tx of choice: pentoxyfylline (Trental) for longterm mgmt. some people use vit E or omega3 FAs which may not work but you can try them in mild cases. books say to use steroids for severe flareups but it isn't really steroid responsive. skin lesions are exacerbated by trauma so use soft bedding. the tx is hemorheologic - improves O2 delivery to tissue. used in people with claudication disorders. improves flow through small capillaries; has many antiinflammatory effects too. slide: border collie with dermatomyositis - this is the first reported case in this breed. Idiopathic ulcerative dermatosis: in older, middle aged collies and shelties - probably a variant of above; causes vesicles, bullae in groin and axilla, as they rupture they form S shaped or serpiginous ulcerations with distinct edges. may affect eyelids, pinnae, muzzle but not usually. dx/tx as above for dermatomyositis ddx: bullous pemphigoid, erythema multiforme (one form of drug rxn), SLE, PV. Lupoid dermatosis of German shorthaired pointer (GSP) clinical features: age of onset 6-8 mos, lesions start on face, pinnae, dorsum; progress to generalized distribution quickly; scrotal and hock lesions may be severe. areas of trauma most affected. lesions can wax and wane. when they are in flare up often have enlarged LNs and fever, but nonpruritic, nonpainful unless secondary infections occur. could confuse with atopy if has secondary infxn. slides: diffuse, generalized, thinning alopecia. dx: hx,, signalment, clinical signs. ddx: nutritional deficiency, drug eruption, zinc defic, FA defic, seborrheic dermatitis, sebaceous adenitis big ddx. proteinuria and/or positive ANA in some cases skin bx - lupoid type changes tx usually not successful; severe cases euthanized. omega3 FAs have been suggested. these dogs often fail therapy, may become very ill, septic. Sebaceous adenitis: after dermatomyositis, most important genodermatosis we see. you should know about this, breeders will ask, don't look stupid. structure and function: sebaceous glands are the main oil factory of skin, make sebum, 90% of lipid film, made of FAs and cholesterol. lipid film functoins as physical barrier, waterproofing, antibacterial, and regulatory role in epithelial keratinization. etiology: autoimmune? is genetically mediated but is it autoimmune? structural? lipid metabolism abnormality? abnormality in keratinization? not sure. two types: both different, depends on length of coat: classic type I: long coat, esp standard poodle, samoyed, akita but 40+ long coated breeds included also Irish and Gordon Setters. is there an infectious virus vector? used to be just in poodle. excessive scale, greasiness, and odor of rancid butter 2ry pyoderma very common in abscence of infection, pruritus not a big feature. progression of type I - classic on standard poodles progressive, symmetrical, scaling and partial alopecia starts on dorsal midline at muzzle, head, neck, goes toward tail. hair dull, brittle, scale is tightly adherent, not like dandruff that falls off. keratosebacous casts also form. thinning alopecia - means you can see through the hair - what occurs before male pattern baldness :). slides: thinning alopecia, scaling/crusting - tons of hyperkeratosis which is very adherent to skin. alopecia nearly complete in some areas. no tx. can moisturize. this is end stage in this dog. in samoyeds, sl different presentation: also get thinning alopecia and dark discoloration due to dirt, grime sticking to oils. starts on front of body more than face. whole anterior surface of the body affected here. akitas tend to get systemically ill - febrile, weight loss - unlike other breeds. heritability: in standard poodles we're reasonably sure it's autosomal recessive. there is a genodermatosis foundation for animals founded by std poodle club of america looking at this and other diseases. subclinical carriers of this dz can sometimes be dxed on biopsy. not sure about heritability in other breeds, though. breeders will bring in normal dogs, and ask you to take 5 biopsies and submit them to a dermatopathologist. if you happen to get a good spot you might find some inflamed sebaceous glands. that dog gets listed with genodermatosis foundation as affected. breeders are good with this. program doesn't exist with other breeds. type 1 sebaceous adenitis: histologic features: periadnexal inflammation - surrounds and destroys the sebaceous glands and eventually the hair follicles. hair pulls out in clumps with goo attached to it. in late stages, scar tissue has replaced the glands. hyperkeratosis (thickening of stratum corneum) present grossly as excessive scale tx of type 1 SA: topical 2x weekly: alpha keri - type bath oil in water, 50-50 mix, mist onto the dog, spray down whole coat, massage it in. sit for an hour, then bathe in benzoyl peroxide shampoo or dawn dish soap to strip off oil, scale, hyperkeratosis. may have to lather repeatedly. takes a few hours. then, to combat the process, systemic therapy with omega 3 FAs (derm caps, EFA caps, generics), evening primrose oil 500 mg capsules - 1 cap of each oil twice a day; 60 day trial, minimum. if they respond they will respond w/in 60 days. slide: golden retriever with whole body thinning alopecia and dark discoloration. 3 mos later after oil therapy has a lot of hair! if FA therapy fails, use synthetic vitamin A derivative: Tegison (etretinate) or the new product soriatain? which is more expensive. Tegison is going off market. this new stuff is about 250 bucks a month, yikes! FYI: vitamin A does not work. you have to use the synthetic vitamin A stuff. these things are FDA approved for tx of psoriasis in people. type 2 SA looks nothing like type 1. causes motheaten alopecia as opposed to thinning. motheaten is more patchy. classic breeds of type 2 - viszla, weimeraner, other short coated breeds. head and ears start, progresses caudally. excessive scale and secondary pyoderma are rare with type II. slide: motheaten viszla. slide: 10 yr old dachsund starting to get tiny motheaten areas. this is sort of weird. with type 2, periadnexal inflammation is much less severe, rarely destroys hair follicle. so for type 1, after time, hair won't grow back, but with type 2 hair will grow back. topicals: no need for oils and stuff b/c no scale. use moisturizing shampoo, creme rinse. use oral fatty acids as above - work 50% of the time. then: isotretinoin (accutane) also about 150 bucks/mo to tx a 25 kg dog. 1-2 mg/kg SID. approved by FDA to tx cystic acne in people. cyclosporin: 5 mg/kg BID. talk about expensive. plus, requires a lot of monitoring. it works, but Dr M doesn't use it. slide: Viszla from before - after accutane tx hair is all back. synthetic retinoids: these are manmade analogues of retinoic acid. many proposed mechanisms on how they affect inflammation/neoplasia. they decrease sebum production, have antikeratinziing effect, have antiinflammatory effect, and alter cell cohesiveness and interaction. used in skin cancer tx - seem to stimulate killer T cells to kill tumor cells. accutane and psoriatane are the big ones. side effects of retinoids in dogs are very few compared to humans. teratogenicity is the main one. do not tx unspayed female dogs with this. MAKE SURE client locks these drugs up and marks them REALLY well so no women of childbearing age accidentally take them. main side effect in dogs - dry eye, keratoconjunctivitis sicca - monitor with schirmer's tear test. also hyperlipidemia occurs in humans and dogs, but in dogs not a huge concern unless very predisposed to pancreatitis. rare to have v/d. after 1 month tx, repeat PE, CBC, chem, ua (maybe not ua), and schirmer tear test. then recheck at 4 mos, then quarterly x 2 yrs, then q 6 mos. don't use in dogs with recurrent pancreatitis, be careful in obese animals. Non endocrinologic, nonpruritic, acquired alopecias: a group of diseases which are mainly cosmetic, but people are serious about their dog's appearance so this is a big deal to many people. color dilution alopecia: a genodermatosis associated with coat color in breeds with a background color with lighter points - dobes, rotties, gordon setter, etc - those black/red dogs with tan points. also can affect chows. it affects blue (dilutino of black) or fawn (dilution of brown) areas; spares the normally colored points. starst as thinning alopecia with mild scale and plugging 3 mos to 3 yrs. then progresses to cover whole area, with comedomes, alopecia, seborrhea, and secondary infection. slide: chihuahua with fawn dilution of dark haircoat - alopecic areas are all in darker fawn areas, the light points are normal. slide: dobe with total body alopecia except on his points. etiology: genetically mediated abnormality in melanin transfer to hair shaft melanin clumping and cuticular abnormalities create weakness of the hair shafts, which then fracture, and fall out. highest frequency of this is in blue and fawn dobermans. blue min pin, blue dachshund, blue chow, blue poodle, dane, whippet, yorkie, chihuahua, fawn irish setter; also other pointed breeds. dx: microscopic exam of plucked hairs often reveals large clumps of melanin resulting in fraying and fracturing of hair shafts. definitive dx if needed is by skin biopsy - sometimes helpful very early in a case. no effective therapy up til 2 yrs ago. we still say affected dogs should be culled from breeding programs. staph managed and treated; use benzoyl peroxide to flush blackeads from follicles and has some antistaph activity. however, synthetic retinoids - psoriatane - work well with this disase but financially unfeasible. black hair follicle dysplasia: also familial, tends to occur in bi-tri colored dogs in area where black hair should be. also in solid breeds. mild scale and folliculitis may occur. bearded collies, basset, schipperke, other. slide: lhasa x papillon cross - black areas are totally bald. white areas are totally fine. slide: black lab trying to be a chocolate lab and hair is gone. severe total body thinning alopecia. he's fine - gets frequent secondary staph infections - gets a lot of benzoyl peroxide baths. etiology and pathogenesis same as color mutant alopecia. histology the same. follicular dysplasias: far murkier - non color linked abnormalities in hair development. follicles making abnormal hair. age of onset varies from 3 mos to several years, many seem to be acquired, not congenital. several syndromes described in various breeds. husky/malamute: loss of truncal guard hairs at 3-4 mos, spares head and limbs, reddish discoloration, abnormal texture curly coated breeds: portugese water dog, water spaniel: progressive truncal alopecia starting 2 yrs, abnormal texture others: airedale, boxer, etc. dx/tx follicular dysplasia: signalment, PE, signs ddx: post-clipping alopecia (northern breeds - shaved for the summer - hair never grows back); pattern baldness (curly breeds). bx: distored follicles cosmetic problem but synthetic retinoids have worked in some cases. seasonal flank alopecia - we see this here. clinical presentation: originally reported in boxer, schnauzer, eng bulldog. a cyclic, seasonal alopecia mainly over flanks/saddle region; usually either very darkly pigmented or hair grows back too fast to see it. unilateral or bilateral. most lose hair in fall, regrow in spring/summer. occurs in many breeds. some dogs lose hair in spring/summer, regrow in fall. may skip a year, progress to permanent alopecia, or never recur after first one or more episodes. etiology unknown - similar signs with many endocrinopathies, though, so look for hypothyroidism, hyperadrenocorticism, ovarian imbalance type I and II. hormone assays are normal in dogs with this disease. slide: young dog with what looks like seasonal flank alopecia; turned out to be sertoli cell tumor related, went away after castration. some class this as a follicular dysplasia - usually will respond to retinoids - but maybe would have gone away anyway? however, there is a cheaper tx option. most plausible pathogenesis - something to do with pineal gland and melanin synthesis making hairs fracture. but why is flank? no clue, really. dx: history of cyclic recurrence. if first time, r/o hormone disorder. skin bx: characteristic atrophy of hair follicles with comedome production - witch's foot. tx:Psoriatane will work, but $$$$; melatonin working in many dogs. pattern baldnesses - pinnal, ventral this is really vexing. there is no tx. hey, Dr Morris doesn't have a tx for his, why should the dog. Propecia costs a lot and may not work that well b/c pattern baldness is more common in female dogs than males, so 5DHT may not be the cause. Rogaine causes necrosis of the right atrium in dogs if systemically absorbed. some people report response to melatonin. ----end---